64 bit in the works?

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Re: 64 bit in the works?

Postby infuzion on Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:14 am

attic wrote:
Are there really enough 64bit plugs for you to do that?
Depends on what your needs are, but I run certain setups that are all 64 bit. Usually I do my mastering in Reaper 64 with all 64 bit plugs. ( izotope, Fabfilter, Voxengo, Psp )
Indeed, that is all you need!

Hmmm, I think I'm going to write Malc an email encouraging another SM re-write, since we need Mac + 64bit audio also.
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Re: 64 bit in the works?

Postby attic on Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:50 am

Indeed, that is all you need!


I sense sarcasm. 3:)

Well no, I use a lot more than that in the creation of the tracks, but for mastering when I'm a hundred or more tracks deep that would be typical for my final master out. I do tend to keep it 64 bit at that point.

Bootsy has some great stuff for a mastering chain so its not always 64 bit. Thanks bootsy.

To be honest I'm just happy to see SM 2 and would shit bricks if real voice management ever happened.
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Re: 64 bit in the works?

Postby nix on Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:19 am

Hey thanks Attic,
I'll deal with 2 sets of programs and upgrade my RAM. I have my copy of 7 ready to go :)
Cheers for the heads up
What is the major issue with voice management?
I have unison working with little modding, but wish I could send all notes off via MIDI.
Something is wrong with the status # I think
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Re: 64 bit in the works?

Postby nix on Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:22 am

infuzion wrote:Hmmm, I think I'm going to write Malc an email encouraging another SM re-write, since we need Mac + 64bit audio also.

Do you think VST3 would be desirable too?
I'm not exactly sure what it entails
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Re: 64 bit in the works?

Postby Tzarls on Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:11 pm

AFAIK, Steinberg is trying hard to sell the vst3 idea, but most developers are still attached to the 2.4 spec. That could be to the fact that only Steinberg´s DAWs support vst3, so porting for only 1 host isn´t worth the effort.
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Re: 64 bit in the works?

Postby Andrew J on Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:05 pm

Tzarls wrote:AFAIK, Steinberg is trying hard to sell the vst3 idea, but most developers are still attached to the 2.4 spec. That could be to the fact that only Steinberg´s DAWs support vst3, so porting for only 1 host isn´t worth the effort.


I believe Presonus Studio One supports VST3 also...
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Re: 64 bit in the works?

Postby Tzarls on Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:01 pm

Yes, that´s right.
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Re: 64 bit in the works?

Postby McBarGig on Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:03 am

No VST3 is not important to me, 64 bit is right at the top of my list for most wanted/needed things..
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Re: 64 bit in the works?

Postby nix on Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:42 am

Up!
We SM devs need this, very much.
Soon everyone will be on 64bit OS.
Could we hear whether it is planned?
Thanks :)
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Re: 64 bit in the works?

Postby infuzion on Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:16 pm

nix wrote:Up!
We SM devs need this, very much.
Soon everyone will be on 64bit OS.
Could we hear whether it is planned?
Thanks :)
You'll have to bug Malc via email directly I'm sure.
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Re: 64 bit in the works?

Postby Nu Audio Science on Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:51 am

We really do need 64bit badly at this point for the reasons infuzion stated back at the start of the thread.
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Re: 64 bit in the works?

Postby mano11 on Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:40 am

I too run on 64 bit Win 7, and i must admit i prefer 64 bit versions of my vst plugins.
I agree. This is a must for SM. If its going to survive in the near future.
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Re: 64 bit in the works?

Postby Nu Audio Science on Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:11 pm

Englebert BUMP a dink
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Re: 64 bit in the works?

Postby Nu Audio Science on Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:47 am

Latest news
Sibelius 7 released only big feature X64
Podium 3 released only feature X64

NAS
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Re: 64 bit in the works?

Postby ryskdsp on Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:52 am

The thing with native x64 O/S compatibility is NOT that audio will sound any smoother or better and all that nonsense.

The thing is that x64 hosts can adress much more RAM than x86 hosts, so people working with massive sample libraries that pre-load their samples into RAM (like myself) prefer accessing more than 3GB of RAM for increased responsiveness and performance regarding their sample playback.

If they, like myself, use a native x64 host software for doing that, then the plugins they use have to be x64 compatible. If they're not compatible, they won't work, can't be loaded, can't be used.

There ARE so called bit-bridges like jBridge etc. which act as "translators" to make x86 plugins available and work inside x64 host applications -and the other way round- but these bridges are pretty buggy, because they're not tailored to fit specific plugins but to stay pretty general and fit "most" plugins.
Also, these bit-bridges are containers, "plugins that load plugins", so when you open the GUI in your host to modify some plugin parameters, host-related commands like spacebar for play/stop etc. won't "go through" to the host. Completely cripples workflow for let's say mastering purposes and ruins the hectic play/pause rapid fire during mixing.
Doesn't sound like a drastic drawback, but if you're doing serious work on your DAW - it is.

Yes, "they work". But just because they work doesn't mean it's good that way.

Now the critical point is - user XYZ, who is a bedroom producer and uses maybe a drum sampler and some Kontakt strings, probably won't ever use 3GB of RAM in one of his projects and therefore doesn't need or depend on x64 compatible stuff; he can just stay with his x86 host in maybe his x64 O/S and happily continue to use x86 plugins.

But user ABC, who is a promising and known producer of (sampled) orchestral scores, will need and use all the RAM he can get his sweaty little hands on, so to him native x64 compatibility for the host and his plugins is essential.
Think he might want to spend his time re-starting his host a thousand times per day because the unreliable x86/x64 bit-bridge crashed it again, runining another 15 precious minutes of his work time, just because he has to put up with the sad fact that his essential everyday-use plugins are being held back from evolution and not ported into a current format?

I myself have switched to using x64 host and plugins only, because it meant an improvement to my DAW's overall performance and responsiveness when working with large sample libraries.
Which, of course, means I had to drop Waves and some other nice plugin gems that aren't x64 compatible, but there are enough alternatives from other developers to completely make up for this loss.

I can't be bothered with deliberately provoking host crashes or ruining my workflow, just to help developers avoid progress. For me, if a plugin is not x64 compatible it means it will empair me, so it's plain uninteresting = dead.

x64 architecture has been around for 8 years now in the Windows world, since XP x64 came out in 2003. More than enough time to adapt. If you (as a developer in general, not focused on outsim) haven't yet, or aren't at least still working on porting x86 stuff to x64, then I assume you don't wish to support my needs - so I won't support yours, meaning: one less sale.

I know I'm not the only one thinking like this.

EDIT to explain what this means:

Developers without native x64 versions of their plugins will slowly but surely be left behind, and their produrcts will remain to be used only in outdated setups. To any commercial developer, this would mean certain death, as competition by x64 developers will become too strong - if it isn't already.

So if SynthMaker stays x86 only and won't support exporting native x64 plugins, either VST or VSTi, a lot of small commercial developers will probably give up struggling with a working environment that only enables them to create outdated formats, and turn to an environment that will make their plugins up-to-date again.

I'm pretty sure a lot of potential future SM customers will be scared off by the fact that their possible future products might only be interesting for a tiny percentage of "old dogs" who don't support the x64 movement because they don't understand it or have no need for it.

Let alone the bad reputation SM plugins have with plugin devotees already. Long loading times, high CPU munch, and now it turns out they're also incompatible to 8 year old technology... Time to do something, I'd say.

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